Doxy Dose

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Buzzwizz619
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Doxy Dose

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:36 pm

My rat Fudge is on Baytril ( well its not actually baytril, its a 50mg tablet called something like xden but apparently its the same thing just a different brand ) 1/10th twice daily and Ronaxan 1/8th once a day.

He was on this combination a 6 weeks ago and it cleared his Myco/URI up pretty quickly (was on it about 3 weeks) hes back on it for another myco/URI flare up, been on it for 10 days now, in himself hes loads better, not sneezing, exploring during free ranging etc but hes still very wheezing and snuffly.

Ive got 80 doses of Baytril (40 days) tablets and 37 (37 days) doses of Ronaxan (20mg), ls it worth upping the doxy to twice a day for just 18 days then finishing of the baytril on its own for the other 22 days, or should i stick to the doses ive been advised?

Thanks Amy

Ps. the vet i saw wasnt the rat savvy vet and opened with "you probably know more about rats than i do" so the dosing is based on what the better vet reccomended last time (and without actually seeing him herself) so he doesnt necessarily know best

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squeakrat
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by squeakrat » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:26 pm

Do you know how much he weighs? I normally dose 1/8th - 1/6th of a 20mg tablet for my does, so it sounds like he could maybe be on a higher dose. I'd say that if he was last on meds 6 weeks ago, you want to treat him for a longer period of time this time and possibly with a higher dose to try and clear it up fully.

If he sounds congested, it might be worth asking the vet for some bisolvon which is a mucolytic and can help.
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Buzzwizz619
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:45 pm

Do you know how much he weighs?
He weight 478g at the moment, his weight fluctuates alot when hes ill, his healthly weight was 530g, when we went the vets he was about 465g so he has atleast gained a little bit which is good :)

The rat guide does say 2.5mg per lb, but twice a day. I assume that means 2.5mg twice a day and not splint between 1 1.25mg doses?

Thanks

Amy

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[cub]
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by [cub] » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:35 am

Buzzwizz619 wrote:The rat guide does say 2.5mg per lb, but twice a day. I assume that means 2.5mg twice a day and not splint between 1 1.25mg doses?
Yes, that's correct.

The standard dose for enrofloxacin (Baytril, or in your case Xeden) at my vets is 10mg/kg twice a day, which in a 500g rat is 5mg twice a day, which is indeed 1/10 of a 50mg tablet. So that's correct.

The standard dose for doxycycline (Ronaxan) at my vets is 5mg/kg twice a day, which in a 500g rat is 2.5mg twice a day, which is 1/8 of a 20mg tablet. Assuming your Ronaxan tablets are 20mg, you're giving the correct amount each time, but only half as often as you should. So I would definitely at least switch to dosing twice a day, and see if that helps. If it does, I'd go back to the vet for some more, so you can give a longer course: 18 days at full dose seems a bit short for a repeat flare-up.
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Buzzwizz619
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:23 pm

Thankyou very much for you advised, ill up the dose and see if he gets any better :)

what would be your advise when i go back the vets, do i tell them i decided to give the meds twice a day (i assume self medicating for prescription meds is frowned upon in the animal world as much as it is in the human world?) or do i just kindda say i lost a tablet or 2?


Also does anyone know how the references work on the ratguide http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... ycline.php Usually the numbers by the text indicate which number reference at the bottom the info is taken from but on the rat guide some text says 26, 29 etc next to it but theres no reference that number at the bottom. But if you click on the numbers to open the link the reference for number 1 on the new page is different to the reference for number on at the bottom of the page. im really confused :L

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[cub]
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by [cub] » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:18 am

Buzzwizz619 wrote:what would be your advise when i go back the vets, do i tell them i decided to give the meds twice a day (i assume self medicating for prescription meds is frowned upon in the animal world as much as it is in the human world?) or do i just kindda say i lost a tablet or 2?
Just tell them the truth: that Fudge had improved somewhat but was still wheezy, so you asked fellow rat-keepers for advice and were told that the doxycycline dose should be double what you were prescribed. The BSAVA formulary dosage* for doxycycline for rats is 5mg/kg q12h (i.e. twice a day), so our advice is completely in line with a major national professional source.

In my (admittedly still relatively limited) experience with vets and doctors, if you have a good reason for self-adjusting a dose, especially if you can back it up with solid references, they are generally okay with it. Or at least they don't complain much, because they haven't got a leg to stand on. ;)

(*Note: I only have the 7th edition; the 8th edition and the exotics half of the 9th edition have been published, so there's a slight chance my information is out of date. But given that my vets prescribe at the same dosage, I can't imagine that it would have changed.)
Buzzwizz619 wrote:Also does anyone know how the references work on the ratguide http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... ycline.php Usually the numbers by the text indicate which number reference at the bottom the info is taken from but on the rat guide some text says 26, 29 etc next to it but theres no reference that number at the bottom. But if you click on the numbers to open the link the reference for number 1 on the new page is different to the reference for number on at the bottom of the page. im really confused :L
I'm not 100% certain but I suspect that the footnotes on each medication page (i.e. the references at the bottom of the page) indicate resources that were used in writing up that page as a whole – all the information about the drug and not just the dosages. The superscript numbers with links that are next to each dosage suggestion refer to the formulary, other reference book, or individual vet's advice on which that particular dosage suggestion is based.
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn and Zephyr Mick Jagger (Edgeworth).
Fondly remembering: Din the Sith Lord, Zephyr Donovan (Phoenix), Xeltan, Lita (NLA32), Lia (NLA28), Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28), Falere (NLA36), Mirala (NLA36), Zephyr Opold, and Rila.

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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by acapae_wolf » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:06 pm

Buying a copy of the NFRS health handbook can really help when going to the vets with rats. I always take my copy with me. Over the years I've added various annotations and bits of paper with further info - even though the book is a bit old by veterinary standard now, these are generally taken more seriously by awkward vets as proper research than if I were to bring any old bit of paper along.

http://www.nfrs.org/sales.html
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Buzzwizz619
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:56 pm

The BSAVA formulary dosage* for doxycycline for rats is 5mg/kg q12h (i.e. twice a day), so our advice is completely in line with a major national professional source.
Thankyou! I had no idea we could actually buy that book! I thought books like that were only able to be accessed by vets! and now ive actually found a PDF of the whole 7th edition online. Ill just print the page off and take it with me just encase :p and thats deffinatley going to come in handy when i have to see the less Rat savvy vets :D
Buying a copy of the NFRS health handbook can really help when going to the vets with rats. I always take my copy with me. Over the years I've added various annotations and bits of paper with further info - even though the book is a bit old by veterinary standard now, these are generally taken more seriously by awkward vets as proper research than if I were to bring any old bit of paper along.
Thankyou ive emailed them to see how i go about ordering a copy, its always nice to have a proper book its sound much better than saying ` the people on the internet say XYZ`!

Buzzwizz619
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Re: Doxy Dose

Post by Buzzwizz619 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:41 pm

Buying a copy of the NFRS health handbook can really help when going to the vets with rats.
Ive got the book now, its a interesting read but i was expecting better from NFRS tbh, it refers to rats being kept in hutches even pointout this isnt reccomended :L and It refers to Synulox and Amoxycillin + clavulanic acid as being different anti-biotics with wildly different dosing recommendations but according to the BSAVA they are they exact same thing! :L

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