Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Fancy Rats Forum » Rat Care » Health




 Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 



Author Message
 Post subject: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:15 pm
Posts: 182
Location: UK
Just wondering what people experiences are with methods of euthanasia? I thought there was a thread but i cant seem to find one.

Ive had 2 rats put to sleep and theyve both been done by different vets and different methods

1. Fudge was anaesthetised then injected with bright blue stuff into his abdomen i think (possibly his leg i cant quite remember) and it took a good few minutes for him to pass
2. Today Peanut-Butter was anaesthetised but injected with yellow stuff directly into his heart and passed very quickly

I did ask the vet why it was different and she said it varies depending on what method each vet prefers.

I know the heart one can hurt if they arent anaesthetised but she assured me he wouldnt feel anything.

Personally I preferred the first method, it just seemed a little bit nicer and i think next time i will ask to only see a vet who does it this way, injecting into his heart just doesnt feel like a nice way to go even if he was blissfully unaware :(

Amy


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 13911
Location: North Yorks
It's likely to be the same chemical, but different brands use different colouring (it's whacky coloured to minimise mixup risks). My vets usually use a brand which uses pink colouring.

I personally prefer the injection to be given to the heart as it's quicker - sometimes gas anaesthetic can wear off super quickly once they're no longer directly receiving (if gas anaesthetic is being used the rat can be returned after the final injection if so, but there's still a gap). However accessing a rat heart requires significantly more skill, and small individual physiological differences can make this harder. Sometimes vets won't get placement bang on on the first attempt, so some vets prefer to inject elsewhere, where such precision isn't required (especially if the owner who may get upset is watching).

Either way, you're totally within your rights to discuss the details with the vet in question before it happens - same as with any other procedure!

_________________
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
Pow, Nessa, Orin, Liffey, Aoife, and Petra (bundle of multis), Whimbrel, Dotterel, and Kestrel (zebra mice), Woodbine and Speedwell (gerbils), a large selection of fancy mice, and Moril (cat)


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:15 pm
Posts: 182
Location: UK
I dont think it helped that when I said i wanted be with him for the final injection she said " you can but its not very nice", shes not a vet ive seen before but usually they tell you its peaceful and that they wont feel anything :L

I think my worry with the heart injection is, if the anaesthetic does start to wear off before its taken effect (she did have to go and get some more of the injection and the first injection didnt do it) then he would feel it and it would be a horrible way to go, whereas with the abdomen if the anaesthetic wears off i assume the they dont actually feel the meds taking effect and once its in there system its as pain free as it is for cats and dogs?

Luckily it did go fine, she did have to have a few attempts to get the needle in, but that itself didnt worry me, he was asleep and blissfully unaware of being prodded by the needle, I can imagine it would of been extremely distressing if he had started to wake up tho!.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:17 pm
Posts: 1788
Location: Hatfield, Herts
All of the rats I've had euthanised are injected straight into the heart. My vets puts them under first.

Admittedly, it was not something I'd ever thought about (all I knew was that they were put under anaesthetic before the injection), it was only when I had a hairless girl pts that I noticed the where the injection has been put in.

_________________
Anthony & Zach, Spencer, Parker, Noah, Milo, Edward, Junior & Roman :)


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:15 pm
Posts: 182
Location: UK
After spending night over thinking the whole situation, I think its possibly for the Vet who performed the euthanasia that i wasnt comfortable with rather than the method used itself.

- She never asked how he was or why he was being PTS now, she just said that she had seen his notes and confirmed I was there to have him PTS
- She "got on with it" straight away without any attempt to advise it was the right decision etc
- She made no attempt to explain to me why the injection was Yellow this time and not blue when i commented
- She only advised the he wouldnt feel it, when i specifically asked as he was sticking the needle in his heart
- She made no attempt to explain WHY different vets do it different
- After the second injection she said " hes gone now" without actually listening to his heart and was quite blunt about it
- As soon as he was "gone" she was eager to usher me out, were as usually they say you can have a few minutes if you like (the practice was literally empty so its not like she was in a rush!)

Ive emailed the practice to see who she was so I can request to be seen by someone else for future euthanasia's as the whole process from start to finish was a little bit rushed and lacking any form of reassurance. In fact I can imagine that for someone who wasnt familiar with the euthanasia process it could of been quite distressing!

All the usual Vets at my practice are usually so lovely and really take there time to reassure you and talk you through things so I dont know where this woman has popped up from but the more I think about it the more i deffinatley dont want to see her again!

Amy


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 13911
Location: North Yorks
That does sound very rushed, and not great in manner at a sensitive time. I've turned up to my current practice a couple of times for an emergency pts (when they've had like one vet on doing small animals and a full appointments list) and at the most the vet has vanished quickly afterwards - but leaving me with a nurse to take things at my own pace. I've had much less good experiences elsewhere.

I think finding out her name and then avoiding is a good plan now that you've worked your feelings out.

_________________
Beri with all at Dandelion Soup
Pow, Nessa, Orin, Liffey, Aoife, and Petra (bundle of multis), Whimbrel, Dotterel, and Kestrel (zebra mice), Woodbine and Speedwell (gerbils), a large selection of fancy mice, and Moril (cat)


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:44 pm
Posts: 264
That doesn't sound very nice indeed. My vets even take time for me despite having a lot of rats and thus putting one to sleep pretty often, even when I come after closing hours for an emergency euth they take their time with me and are very nice. For us owners a large part about euthanisation feeling right depends on how the vet treats you.

I do want to note that an injection straight into the heart without anesthesia is illegal, at least it is in the Netherlands and IIRC the British laws are pretty similar. It's not humane in any case. With anesthesia (gas or injection in the muscle) it is legal and humane and indeed the quickest way to euthanise. If you want to go with a single shot go for the abdomen, though honestly I am not too happy with how vets tend to give these injections (there's a specific way to it so you don't hit and rupture any organs, can't imagine that feeling nice).

_________________
~Elise & the rats of Rattery Castor: Bagheera, Dex, Doctor, Elrond, Eomer, Fenris, Flowix, Gregory, Grissom & H2O, H'amneko, Arwen, Brennan, Celestia, Deb, Donna, Rapunzel, Elwynn, Eonar, GLaDOS, Geronimo


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:50 pm
Posts: 1229
Location: York, UK
An IC injection without anaesthesia is legal here but most vets don't do it.
I've had several rats take over 20mins for the heart to stop if the injection is just into the abdomen. One did start to come round to and had to have more sevoflo. There can be quite a lot of blood leakage with an IC injection and it can be difficult as vets on the whole don't do it often.

She doesn't sound very compassionate, I'm sorry she made an unpleasant time even worse. I wouldn't want to see her again either.

_________________
Slave to: Rescue boys Howard, Archie Broadstripe, Ray Shortstripe, Norman Wonkystripe, Albert, Bisley and Walter
Too many on the bridge to list.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:44 pm
Posts: 264
RedFraggle wrote:
I've had several rats take over 20mins for the heart to stop if the injection is just into the abdomen. One did start to come round to and had to have more sevoflo.

When that happens usually the injection did not go correctly and probably went somewhere else like in the abdominal fat or intestines. Like I said vets are often not very good with these injections either as they tend to just hold up the rat's upper body and poke straight into their abdomen. :? Sorry, a bit TMI but I care a lot about proper euthanisation and I happen to have been thought how to do it properly during my study.

I agree IC injections are also quite difficult without experience.

_________________
~Elise & the rats of Rattery Castor: Bagheera, Dex, Doctor, Elrond, Eomer, Fenris, Flowix, Gregory, Grissom & H2O, H'amneko, Arwen, Brennan, Celestia, Deb, Donna, Rapunzel, Elwynn, Eonar, GLaDOS, Geronimo


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:50 pm
Posts: 1229
Location: York, UK
Tenmashi wrote:
RedFraggle wrote:
I've had several rats take over 20mins for the heart to stop if the injection is just into the abdomen. One did start to come round to and had to have more sevoflo.

When that happens usually the injection did not go correctly and probably went somewhere else like in the abdominal fat or intestines. Like I said vets are often not very good with these injections either as they tend to just hold up the rat's upper body and poke straight into their abdomen. :? Sorry, a bit TMI but I care a lot about proper euthanisation and I happen to have been thought how to do it properly during my study.

I agree IC injections are also quite difficult without experience.


Indeed, that's why I said it happens with an abdo injection sometimes. Some would find it pretty upsetting. In my opinion the most proficient are trained animal lab techs. I've seen plenty of IC injections done perfectly in conscious rats with no obvious stress or trauma to the rat. If I had the choice of a vet or a licenced tech I'd take the tech any day of the week!

_________________
Slave to: Rescue boys Howard, Archie Broadstripe, Ray Shortstripe, Norman Wonkystripe, Albert, Bisley and Walter
Too many on the bridge to list.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:23 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: Dunstable, Bedfordshire
I once had a horrible old dinosaur of a vet inject my rat straight into the heart without anaesthetic. He screamed and I have never forgotten it, or been back there. I wish I had complained.

I have to say reading your experience, I would definitely not be happy about this. The vet technically performed the procedure as necessary but I don't think that's really the way they should behave when people have come there to say goodbye to their beloved pets. Compassion, sensitivity, sympathy is part of the job description, doesn't sound like she had any.

_________________
Formerly known as Hobbit Stealer

Ratmum to Bilbo, Pip, Milo, Iroh and Zuko. 2 Lady Gerbils - Gandalf and Radagast. Baby Spider - Shelob <3
Loved&Lost: All my sweet boys... missed dearly <3


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:13 pm
Posts: 4
I am appalled and saddened that your rat received a lethal injection without sedation. This is inhumane and extremely painful. How a vet could end an animal's life this way who is already suffering is beyond my comprehension. How does he/she sleep at night?

One of my rats had to be euthanized and my vet chose to sedate first with an injection. At that time I didn't know how sedated my girl would be and I looked at my vet and told him I was not going to have my rat die this way and asked for isoflurane sedation. He grudgingly obliged and told me to put my rat in the tank (with no towel) and did the deed and gave my rat back to me.

I have not read other replies to avoid influencing what I was going to post. All I can say is NEVER allow a rat to be PTS without sedation.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: Euthanasia Methods (ETA at the vets)
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:38 pm
Posts: 18
I am quite new in rat keeping, some of these ways of euthanizing our beautiful animals are so scary. I really hope i dont get to have to choose any of the ways because its gonna break my heart.


Top 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
 Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 




Board index » Fancy Rats Forum » Rat Care » Health


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: