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 Post subject: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:25 pm 
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So I had to separate one of my rats from the group as he injured another rat last night, he's now really depressed and won't come out of his sputnik or take any treats.

I have the other rats in a hamster cage at the moment because of Tom's injury and I don't want them to be too boisterous and hurt him more. When I brought the other rats into the room he came out of the sputnik and started trying to get out the cage I opened the door and he was back sitting on my shoulder. He's now gone to sleep in the cage as close to the other rats as he can get.

Is there anything I can do to keep him happy till he gets neutered or should I go for the implant so I can start introductions again straight away. I don't want to risk anymore injuries but I don't want him to be depressed for weeks.

Help please I've never seen him so sad! What's the chances of him injuring another rat again if I put them in a carrier now?


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:39 am 
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Both the implant and neutering require a number of weeks for hormones to level off; the implant isn't instantaneous.

Is there a rat in the group that the attacking rat gets on well with?

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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:34 pm 
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His brother and him always got in fine I have them out together at the moment, im just not sure I trust him not to injure him but he does get excited every time he sees parsley.

How can I be sure it's hormonal aggression, as I have noticed a few bites in him also. However Tom came off way worse and had to have his side glued back together. I have also noticed colnel grooming and pinning and then just not stopping like rats normally do. He also does a lot of sidling and chasing.

However since I've separated him he hides in the corner of the cage and won't come out. He won't take treats off me anymore and is constantly fear pooping sitting on me.

Although he does have weird tantrums like pushing all the bedding out aggressively and he had a tantrum with the box. Im so confused and don't know what to do. I don't want to take parsley put the group permanently as he has some good friends there but also I don't want colnel to be on his own. As if I can't get him back with the boys I will add him to the girls.

Can I just have colnel and parsley out to play together each day or maybe alternate colnel and other group members except tom? So he is still interacting with other rats but then I don't have to leave him unsupervised?

Help please


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:59 pm 
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I've put them both in a hamster cage so I can watch them together and colnel is currently snuggled up next to parsley boggling away. He was so happy to have his brother with him


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:36 pm 
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I'd keep Colonel and Parsley separate in a small cage like you have them in now. Given how serious the injuries to Tom sound, and if your vet is experienced with rat surgery, I wouldn't hesitate to get Colonel neutered, with Parsley keeping him company while he recovers from the op and his hormones settle. If Colonel only has serious issues with Tom, you could try swapping the other rats in shifts so Parsley isn't the only one on Colonel-company-duty, but if Parsley is the only one he'll tolerate peacefully, then Parsley will just have to deal with it I'm afraid. It is traditional for post-op rats to get delicious squishy food so Parsley won't feel too hard done by if he does end up being the only one on duty. :lol:

After Colonel has had a few weeks to heal and become less hormonal, I'd reintroduce them all using the carrier method, as though they were meeting for the first time. Until then, separate the cages as much as you can, at least by putting a sheet of cardboard in between them if you can't separate them with any physical distance.

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Poo-shoveller to: Zephyr Delanynder, Lia, and Lita.
Fondly remembering: Falere the contrary NLA36, Mirala the best and finest NLA36, Zephyr Opold the serene, and Rila the rodentist.
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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:20 pm 
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I agree, keep Parsley with him until he's been neutered and had a chance for hormones to reduce, then reintroduce everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Im just worried that of they are together when im not here colnel will turn on parsley as previously he was always cuddled up with tom.

Whenever I am in I have been leaving the two together and putting parsley back in the group. He doesn't let any of the others go near him and pushes them away, that could be because he's been away from them for a while maybe.

Tom had to have his side glued together it was bleeding quite as bit and he had a bit of a hole, I had never seen him look so scared.

It's really strange though as colnel is not aggressive all the time it's like he has temper tantrums and just loses control. Is that what hormonal aggression is like? The rest of my boys are very laid back so I've not seen this before. Tonight he's been a proper little sweetie, this morning however he was randomly angry at me.

He's booked in for a neuter so in looking forward to getting them all back together once his hormones are better. He is below them at the moment separated by a metal tray. In out of spare cages at the moment as I have another male that's due to be neutered (I adopted him and he is fear aggressive he's going in with the girls)


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Hi! You need to keep Colnel and Parsley together in their own cage all the time. Don't keep moving Parsley between Colnel and the big group. That just confuses matters and it's not fair to keep Colnel on his own. Once Colnel has had the op and all the hormones are settled down then, as Mary says, do a full introduction from scratch using the carrier method.

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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Should I go through intros with colnel and parsley before I put them in the cage together? I did try just after the incident to put parsley in the cage with colnel but he went for him I also tried the following morning but the same happened again, however he seems fine with him during free range or the hamster cage.

It's really hard to imagine colnel being aggressive as right now he's being lovely! Just worried it's not hormonal aggression and im mistaken, but I have never seen any of the rats so worked up before and he did draw blood?

How can you tell if it is hormonal rather than a random act of aggression? Are there any signs before an injury can occur?


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:19 pm 
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since I removed colnel from the cage im having more disharmony in the main cage, which is making me wonder if I just need to go through reintroductions rather than a neuter? Is this worth a try? I've not had any injuries since they've been together since June but maybe it's a case of the younger ones getting older and wanting a new hirearchy. Im just really confused, I don't want to neuter the wrong one.

I mean how do I know tom wasn't being aggressive and colnel got mad? Please help I have no idea what I am doing


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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:29 pm
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Hi again Samana,

I am a bit confused as to what rats you have and who you are keeping with who and where. Perhaps it would help us all to help you if you write a list of your rats, their names, their ages, where you got them from, how they are related and who is with who in your cages. Also, it might help us also to know what experience you have of keeps rats.

I am no expert with boys but it sounds to me like neutering Colonel is the right thing to do. And, as I said before, I would keep Colonel and Parsley together in a cage with no mixing with your other rats until Colonel has had the operation and his hormones have settled after a few weeks. Don't keep mixing things up as this unsettles all the rats.

I hope that helps a bit.
Helen

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 Post subject: Re: Separated rat as he injured another rat
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:48 am 
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If Colonel is now also attacking Parsley, has previously injured another rat, and is also attacking humans, there is definitely something wrong with him specifically. Maybe the other rats are winding him up, and maybe hierarchy changes within the group are setting off arguments, but there is definitely also something wrong with Colonel as well, and it definitely sounds like he needs neutering. He may not be the only rat in the group that needs neutering, but let's start with him and see how things go. :P

Is Colonel in the same cage as the others but only separated by a tray? That may not be enough. If you only have the hamster cage spare then I'd just keep him in that temporarily, rather than having him so close to the rest of the group. That's probably winding him up, and unsettling the others as well. And if Colonel has been attacking Parsley then keep Colonel on his own, and return Parsley to the main group.

I have no experience with male rats and only some experience with aggression, but acts of aggression aren't random: they happen for a reason, and the most common reason among male rats is hormones. Even if there are other contributing causes, removing the flood of testosterone should at least calm things down.

_________________
Poo-shoveller to: Zephyr Delanynder, Lia, and Lita.
Fondly remembering: Falere the contrary NLA36, Mirala the best and finest NLA36, Zephyr Opold the serene, and Rila the rodentist.
Avatar by Ursula Vernon.


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