Can someone check my proposed diet?

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cyber ratty
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Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by cyber ratty » Thu May 21, 2020 9:51 am

(posted on behalf of someone else)

Hi, I am new and hoping to rescue some rats in the near future. I’ve been researching, reading the advice here. I also purchased Alison Campbells rat diet books. I am vegan so would prefer to feed my rats vegan too and she seems to write that it is possible as long as there is a good protein source and the ratties are not pregnant, lactating or babies.

This is the diet i’m thinking of. I am hoping to use Yarrah Vegan dog kibble and lentils and azuki as the protein source. I’ve also included buckwheat, quinoa and amaranth into the mix. What do you think?

(Based on Shunamite rat diet)

Ratios

6 cups base food
1.5 cups of “processed” cereals
0.5 cup of vegetables
0.5 cup of seeds
0.5 cup of herbs
1.0 cup of protein source

Base mix
3 cups organic barley flakes

1 cup organic jumbo rolled oats

1 cup pesticide free wildrice

1 cup organic brown rice

1 cup organic wheat groats

2 cups organic whole popcorn (unpopped)

1 cup organic buckwheat

2 cups organic mixed millet (half a cup of each)


“Processed” Cereals

Organic Brown pasta

Organic Quinoa

Organic Amaranth

Dried Organic rye/dinkel+grünkern/volkorn bread


Dried Vegetables

Organic Daikon (Japanese radish) & Carrot

Organic Tomatoes

Organic Kale

Organic sliced Garlic

Seed mix
Organic hulled Hemp seed
Flax seed
Organic Chia
Organic Sesame
Organic Pumpkin seeds
1 teaspoon each Aromatic seeds (Organic Caraway Seed, organic Cumin Seed, organic Coriander Seed, organic Fennel Seed, organic milk thistle seed)

Herbs

Organic Lemon balm

Organic Peppermint

Organic Basil

Pesticide free Dandelion

Organic Camomile

Protein source
3/4 Organic Dog kibble (Yarrah Vega)

1/8 Organic Lentil mix
1/8 Organic Azuki


Also I live in Japan so cages are not really to standard here. They do import some but they are insanely expensive. However I don’t mind the cost if they’ll be good. Has anyone heard or even have the Savic tasmania 120? Your thoughts would help. Price over here is the equivalent of £550-600 😅

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cyber ratty
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Re: Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by cyber ratty » Fri May 22, 2020 3:58 pm

That diet looks fine to me :D

The cage looks great too - but I'd ditch the wooden levels, and fill the cage with ropes, baskets, etc. instead. :luck:

(I'm in a bit of a rush atm - sorry I can't go into more depth, but welcome to FR!)

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Re: Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by cyber ratty » Thu May 28, 2020 4:07 am

(posted on behalf of someone else)

Thank you. Will I also need supplements with this diet as I’m not sure we can get those over here in Japan.

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Re: Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by cyber ratty » Thu May 28, 2020 10:34 am

Yes you'll need calcium, vitamin D, and copper - you'd need to look into dosages, but all of those will probably be sold everywhere for humans, even if you can't find animal products.

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Re: Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by [cub] » Sat May 30, 2020 5:01 pm

The mix looks excellent! As Mary said though, you'll need supplements, particularly if you'd like to feed them vegan. The only decent sources of calcium and vitamin D in food are animal foods: bones or cuttlebones for calcium, and oily fish for vitamin D.

You want roughly 75mg calcium, 75μg copper, and 15IU (0.375μg) vitamin D per rat per day. (That's based on the assumption that they eat 15g of dry food each per day.) They don't have to get this amount every single day; so long as they get that on average over a week (say) that should be fine.

Calcium supplements for humans are usually combined with vitamin D since they complement each other in the body, so you might not be able to get the ratio exactly right for the rats unless you can get separate supplements, but so long as you don't exceed their daily requirement for either by a ridiculous amount (say 5x or more) you should be fine. Note that most vitamin D supplements are made from animal products, in case you weren't already aware.

You may wish to invest in some 0.1g or even 0.01g scales to get the dosing right for the supplements, though the latter may lead to some interesting purchase suggestions. :lol:

If you're keen on a very DIY approach to rat feeding, this resource is indispensable (and where I get all my numbers from): https://www.nap.edu/read/4758/chapter/4
(Note that as with all resources based on and aimed at laboratory settings, their conclusions do not always apply directly to pet rats since so many aspects about their environment and lifestyle are so different, but it's the best starting point we have.)
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn (NLA32); Zephyr Nyahir; Zephyr Zymandis; Zephyr Blasto.
Fondly remembering: Zephyr Mick Jagger "Edgeworth"; Din (NLA28); Zephyr Donovan "Phoenix"; Xeltan; Lita (NLA32); Lia (NLA28); Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28); Falere (NLA36); Mirala (NLA36); Zephyr Opold; Rila.

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Re: Can someone check my proposed diet?

Post by [cub] » Sat May 30, 2020 5:25 pm

Nyanzai wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:51 am
Also I live in Japan so cages are not really to standard here. They do import some but they are insanely expensive. However I don’t mind the cost if they’ll be good. Has anyone heard or even have the Savic tasmania 120? Your thoughts would help. Price over here is the equivalent of £550-600 😅
My main concern about that cage is the base: it's barred, which isn't great for rats as they spend a fair amount of their time on the ground foraging in the substrate and just running around, neither of which bars really suit. People often solve this problem with bird cages by putting a homemade Perspex (or similar) tray in the bottom, but the design of that cage would then make cleaning out the tray a pain difficult since the doors don't provide great access.

If you're decent with DIY, I'd contemplate either meshing a cat cage (I'm seeing a lot of those on amazon.co.jp), or converting a wardrobe (waterproof the inside, mesh the front doors, possibly reinforce any potentially chewable areas with large wooden blocks or metal strips). Beware that meshing a cage makes cleaning the bars much more of a pain, though.

I notice that the Savic Zeno 3 is currently on offer at amazon.co.jp: https://www.amazon.co.jp/Belgium-Savic- ... B01HER0VEG
Its main drawbacks are the poor access, and you have to lift the entire top off to be able to clean the base, which may require a great deal of strength (and possibly some cable ties to hold the cage together as you do so, since it's flatpack). But the price doesn't make my eyes water, which is good. :lol:

Alternatively, for that eye-watering markup, I'd rather go for the Savic Royal Suite: I have it myself and I love it. It does need a base tray to stop all the substrate escaping out the sides (the kick guards aren't great) but the fully opening double doors are great: https://www.amazon.co.jp/SAVIC-%E3%80%9 ... 00MCLD4N0/
Poo-shoveller to: Calyn (NLA32); Zephyr Nyahir; Zephyr Zymandis; Zephyr Blasto.
Fondly remembering: Zephyr Mick Jagger "Edgeworth"; Din (NLA28); Zephyr Donovan "Phoenix"; Xeltan; Lita (NLA32); Lia (NLA28); Zephyr Delanynder (NLA28); Falere (NLA36); Mirala (NLA36); Zephyr Opold; Rila.

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