2am, inner ear bleed - help?

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Miss Aislin
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2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:19 am

Hoping there are some insomniacs or non-Brits on the board who can offer me some advice/reassurance?

I came to bed a short while ago and noticed Sugar's ear was bloody. She's a hormonal 6 month old girl who often gets swiped at for being too boisterous with the older girls so I assumed she'd been bitten/scratched (and probably thoroughly deserved it!) I was going to leave it - it's 2am I'm exhausted and a nick is not a huge concern. Got ready for bed and my maternal instinct said no - don't leave it til morning, clean her and give her a treat. Got her out to find the blood is coming from deep within her ear canal. She's displaying zero signs of an ear infection (no head tilt, eating, drinking, toileting and playing absolutely fine) so I'm incredibly concerned that it's something a lot more sinister.

She's a 6 month old rescue girl who we suspect came from a rodent farm/pet shop. She was a little malnourished/small when she came to me about 2 months ago. Can rats as young as her get ZGT's? I've isolated her, put her in the little carrier beside my bed and will take her to the vets as soon as it opens tomorrow morning (my vets IS open all night for emergencies but I have no transport, no cash on me for a taxi, it's not an area I know well or would feel comfortable in on my own at night and if it is a ZGT I doubt six hours will make any difference :'(). Is there anything I can do for her until morning? She has. Food, water, substrate and a comfy bed.

Is it likely to be just an ear infection or something worse? Should I go to the vets NOW or at first light? She seems bright and alert (and a little annoyed at being put in the carrier!) Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Mummy to: Red Light Indicates Doors Are Secured, Sugar Coated Accident, Violet Hill and Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin.
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Alchemist
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Alchemist » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:12 am

Hi

I'm new to owning rats so don't really have much advice but thought as we're the only 1s online right now and I'm sure you're feeling panicky (I know I would) I'd reply and give you some support.

Has Sugar's ear stopped bleeding? If so me personally would wait till morning, if not I'd be tempted to phone the vets and speak to the emergency vet.

I think you've done the right thing by removing her for the night, just so no one starts bothering her ear more than anything and you can keep a closer eye on her.

As Sugar doesn't seem to be in any distress (apart from annoyed at being in the carrier), she's bright, alert, eating, drinking, no change in behaviour and no eeps of pain when you went to clean her up. I would be content with keeping her in the carrier (with a few nice treats) and go to the vets in the morning.

Sorry I can't be of much help hun. I hope Sugar is ok and it's nothing serious xx
Merlin, Prince Arthur, Sir Percival, Mordred, Sir Kay & Albion

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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:35 am

Alchemist wrote:Hi

I'm new to owning rats so don't really have much advice but thought as we're the only 1s online right now and I'm sure you're feeling panicky (I know I would) I'd reply and give you some support.

Has Sugar's ear stopped bleeding? If so me personally would wait till morning, if not I'd be tempted to phone the vets and speak to the emergency vet.

I think you've done the right thing by removing her for the night, just so no one starts bothering her ear more than anything and you can keep a closer eye on her.

As Sugar doesn't seem to be in any distress (apart from annoyed at being in the carrier), she's bright, alert, eating, drinking, no change in behaviour and no eeps of pain when you went to clean her up. I would be content with keeping her in the carrier (with a few nice treats) and go to the vets in the morning.

Sorry I can't be of much help hun. I hope Sugar is ok and it's nothing serious xx
Yes I am quite panicky, I've had a run of bad ratty luck lately and I think I've convinced myself to assume the worst.

Her ear has not stopped bleeding, I applied pressure but it's not an excessive flow and I'm not massively concerned about the amount she's losing (more concerned about why she's losing it).

I'm staying up with her for the night, (I have chronic insomnia anyway, another night without sleep won't kill me, though it is my third in a row), she's in the carrier by my bed, she came out for a cuddle and a sniff but seems happy to curl up on the comfy rat-bed as opposed to my lap. She does not seem bothered by her ear, at all, also her hearing seems fine. She is bruxxing rather loudly - which I shall interpret as a distressed noise and not a contented noise for now :/

I know you think you weren't much help but believe me just having someone to talk to is helpful!
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KattieRattie
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by KattieRattie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:53 am

I also have insomnia. Sorry I don't know why this might be I've just had a look through my NFRS handbook though, all that is described is - ear mange mites - but I don't think this is it if the blood is coming from inside the ear. The other is to do with infection.

It does say Zithromax is a good AB for ear infection. I was wondering though, could she have scratched herself, could there be a little spot type of thing that she's cut open?

Has she shown any sign of respiratory infection recently?

Is she scratching her ear a lot?

xx
K x
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:06 am

KattieRattie wrote:I also have insomnia. Sorry I don't know why this might be I've just had a look through my NFRS handbook though, all that is described is - ear mange mites - but I don't think this is it if the blood is coming from inside the ear. The other is to do with infection.

It does say Zithromax is a good AB for ear infection. I was wondering though, could she have scratched herself, could there be a little spot type of thing that she's cut open?

Has she shown any sign of respiratory infection recently?

Is she scratching her ear a lot?

xx
No sign of a resp infection, or any other infection. She's bright as a button. Mites tend to look like tiny red spots and scratches over the outer ear so I don't think it's that. I've had a good look at her (she's a very good little girl, I doubt my older girls would let me prod and push at them like that!) and there's no obvious scratch/bite/wound and the blood seems to be coming from very deep within the ear canal (further than I think she can reach).

05:06am. It's been a long night.
Mummy to: Red Light Indicates Doors Are Secured, Sugar Coated Accident, Violet Hill and Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin.
RIP to the many at the bridge xx

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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Anathema » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:50 am

Sounds like you and Sugar have had a long night. I have never had a rat with bleeding in the ear. My first thought was has she managed to scratch herself badly in the ear but it sounds like it is deep within the ear canal. How is she now ? Hope she is ok and that it is nothing serious.
From Kristy, Humphrey, Arthur, and Arnie x
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:24 am

The past hour or so she's gone a bit quiet - but that might be because she's been up with me all night. Vets opens in an hour and a half.
Mummy to: Red Light Indicates Doors Are Secured, Sugar Coated Accident, Violet Hill and Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin.
RIP to the many at the bridge xx

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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Anathema » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:34 am

Good luck at the vet :luck: . Let us know how you get on
From Kristy, Humphrey, Arthur, and Arnie x
And gone but never forgotten: Henry, Harvey, Leo, Archie, Marty, Lewis, Baz, Frodo, Sam, George, Murphy, Bertie, Molly, Izzy, Ibby, Milly, Ralph, Ernie, Marley, Milo, Pearl, Opal, Amber, Jet, Jack, Charlie, Ned and Harry Old forum member (Kristy)

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Miss Aislin
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:49 am

I napped between about 7.30 and 8, woke up and there was blood EVERYWHERE! She went fairly still and didn't respond/get up to have a look round when we went out and got a taxi, she didn't panic when a cat miaowed at her in the vets (she's normally terrified of cats, none of the other girls are!). The vet opened the carrier and she didn't jump up or try to get out at all - she's only 6 months old she'd normally be clambering out to explore new people and smells.

Apparently she's exhibiting symptoms of extreme blood loss. I should have taken her in earlier, I feel awful. They're gonna knock her out, clean her up and see what they're dealing with, seal it if it's a wound or flush it if it's an infection. Vet said appropriately she's not going to 'sugar coat' it, there's a slight swelling sort of under the jaw and it could well be a ZGT  She is six months old </3
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by AlisonR » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:18 am

Oh i'm so sorry for you and Sugar. ZGTs are horrible, and in such a young girl as well :(.
You weren't to know that there would be that much blood loss in that time, but she's in good hands now.. Just hope they discover that it's something else instead. Xx

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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Alchemist » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:58 am

:o No the poor little love and poor you. Fingers crossed the swelling isn't ZGT and is just the result of an infection or a abscess.

My iPad ran out of juice before you posted (I'm cursing it right this min) so didn't see that Sugar was still bleeding. Don't feel awful you weren't to know she'd bleed so much in that 30mins.

(Hope you don't mind me asking) What part of Leeds do you live in? I'm in LS14 and if you're close enough I may be able to help in the future (cant drive for at least another 2-3weeks) from time-time getting to and from vets (this goes to all).

:luck: I really hope Sugar is ok and youth is on her side xx
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Alchemist » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:27 am

Alchemist wrote: (Hope you don't mind me asking) What part of Leeds do you live in? I'm in LS14 and if you're close enough I may be able to help in the future (cant drive for at least another 2-3weeks) from time-time getting to and from vets (this goes to all).

Will post a new topic regarding this once given all clear to drive. Was going to post now but will be better to do so once given all clear.
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:56 pm

Well, it’s been a looong day but I’m home - AND I HAVE SUGAR WITH ME! An hour before I took her to the vets this morning the bleeding got a dozen imes worse - it was EVERYWHERE, she stopped responding to her name, the fresh air, the taxi ride, the cats miaowing in the surgery etc. She sort of went limp and lifeless while we were waiting to be seen. It was awful.

She had anaesthetic and went in for an exploratory - no sign of any tumour, which is a good thing, but no signs of any wound trauma or infection either.

Vet said it doesn’t look like she’s fallen and/or hit her head (no bruising or anything) but it’s a possibility (I promise you the cage is well decked out with hammocks and things to catch them if they fall!) - It’s possibly a combination of the two, she had a fall which caused a fit or she had a fit which caused a fall. We’re just taking it day by day.

It’s not good news I’m afraid but it’s not the worst. The side of her face that the bleed was on has sort of fallen/slowed down and we suspect she’s had a stroke or a seizure or a fit or something - neurological at any rate. She’s on the teeniest dose (0.1ml once a day) of painkillers and antibiotics I’ve ever had to give a rat, because she’s still so small. She’s desperate to get back in with her sisters and play but she has to be isolated for a couple of days so I can monitor her food/water/toilet usage. *sighs* Poor baby girl. xx

(Ps: LS7 )
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RIP to the many at the bridge xx

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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by KattieRattie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:24 pm

Oh poor thing. I don't know if a rat could suffer from this but could it be bell's palsy? That's a virus that effects one side of the face. I don't know if it's possible for rats to get this virus too, I just wondered because you said about the facial fall.

It's probably not!

I hope she gets better fast though!
K x
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Re: 2am, inner ear bleed - help?

Post by Miss Aislin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:15 am

Her face looks much better this morning! If I weren't watching out for it it's not something I'd even noticed, she looks like she's wincing very slightly with one eye which is possibly pain related rather than some neurological nasty!

Image

We're working on a new theory: a blood clotting disorder. She's a British Blue, last night I remembered an incident where I nicked her toenail while trimming her nails and it bled and bled and bled - I'm ashamed to admit I'm no stranger to nipping toenails :oops: but I remember it taking ages for her to stop bleeding. I'm wondering if it really WAS just a tiny (undetectable) nick or bump that caused the massive blood loss where other rats would normally only have a scratch or a bruise.
Mummy to: Red Light Indicates Doors Are Secured, Sugar Coated Accident, Violet Hill and Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin.
RIP to the many at the bridge xx

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