Really upset with FR

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Squirrel
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Really upset with FR

Post by Squirrel » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:36 pm

I have just noticed the 'Feeder Breeding' section. How long has it been there? I'm pretty upset that FR wants to have anything to do with breeding poor little ratties as reptile food. I actually find it shocking and no longer think it is the forum I thought it was. What next? A 'How to cull rats' section? Soooo sad :cry:

I have been on FR since 2002 but now I'm wondering if I might be able to find a forum that doesn't have sections like this. I thought this forum was for the welfare of rats? There are plenty of reptile forums where I'm sure you can read about feeder breeding but people who love rats don't want that on their forum, I don't anyway.
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flash-gordonette
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by flash-gordonette » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:43 pm

I think it got added a while ago with the intention of improving the welfare of the rats bred for reptile food (after all snakes have to eat).

I wonder if perhaps that section of the forum could be hidden unless access is requested? (Like the "Adult Chat" section).

Sorry that its upset you though :( I agree that its not nice to think about x
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Cricket
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Cricket » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:43 pm

It's been there since they moved to this new site I believe.

That section is for feeder breeders to ask questions about rats welfare without fear of judgement and scrutiny, I personally think it's a good idea and appalled any feeder breeder to be concerned enough to look for a forum on how to correctly keep rats, even if they are destined a short life.
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RedFraggle
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by RedFraggle » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 pm

I agree. It will happen regardless and any positive impact we can have on their short lives is an improvement.
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Squirrel
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Squirrel » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:55 pm

Snakes can eat 'snake sausages' they don't need to eat rats. It just breaks my heart to think of baby rats just born to die. I must admit I have no idea why anyone would want to keep a snake as a pet anyway. You can't cuddle them or have a relationship with them the way you can a dog, a rat or a parrot etc, the diet is gruesome and they aren't easy to look after which gives rise to a lot of potential for poor husbandry. If you aren't allowed to keep ferrets in California I don't think you should be able to keep snakes as pets in the UK. Also many are downright dangerous and have been known to kill people either though squeezing them to death or a posionous bite.

I agree with Flash-Gordonette that it is upsetting to ordinary rat lovers and should be hidden or preferably made into a seperate forum.
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HereticPr1me
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by HereticPr1me » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:07 pm

I think it has no business on this forum.
There is plenty of care information for anyone to read, regardless of what the fate of the animal is to be, the level of care should not change. On the up side, it does seem to be a pretty unpopulated section.

Having recently seen the effects of irresponsible (ie illegal) feeder-breeder activities I can understand the sentiment. If people are to feeder breed they should still be able to discuss the care of rats without the need to divulge their intents (you wouldn't go onto a dog forum and talk about fur coats, right ?).
I assume this section found it's way here as a result of some heated topic in the past, so I do understand why it has come about, but I still feel it has no business as a discussion thread.

Here's my idea, publish a best practise guide in that section along with an FR statement on the responsible welfare for breeding and the provision of quality of life for the animals during their short time. Also have links to appropriate material on rat care, health etc. and state clearly that live feeding is illegal except in specific cases.
Then lock that forum section down so it acts as a quick reference read-only information pool. Anything else people want to know can be got from the forum proper.

EDT: It's not just snakes, Squirrel, and Im sure theres a raft of reptile keepers who would argue they all have personality once you get to know them. A lot of them end up in rescue too, sadly.
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Amzy
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Amzy » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:11 pm

I'd rather someone came to this forum to receive ethical advice about the care of the rats that they look after before they meet the snakes than not receive any advice at all....
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Squirrel
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Squirrel » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:34 pm

Amzy wrote:I'd rather someone came to this forum to receive ethical advice about the care of the rats that they look after before they meet the snakes than not receive any advice at all....
But Doug's suggestion would work. I don't see that they need their own seperate section. Good husbandry is good husbandry. I mean, what can they discuss there that is not just general care anyway? I wouldn't dare go on there or I wouldn't sleep so I am hoping that they don't discuss killing methods. That can't possibly be humane seeing as you can't use anaesthetic if you are going to feed the animals.

Please can this section be hidden from me? I don't want to see it, I didn't request it. The adult-only section is request only so why not make the feeder breeder section request only too? Unfortunately I think have that section in open forum puts FR in a bad light to a lot of people who love rats to pieces and would come on here and see that or God forbid, accidentally click on it (easy enough with a cheap tiny tablet where the writing is small). It is for the same reason that PETA etc carry warnings on their videos or just send them as links so you don't accidentally click on them.
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Amzy
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Amzy » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:44 pm

Squirrel - You've managed to not see it for over 2 years now, so in affect you have been ignoring it. The fact that it's separate means you can ignore joe bloggs who comes on here and says "I currently use racks but I'd like to change to cages for the rats best interests" if it really upsets you that much.

We feed our rats a natural diet to suit their needs, snakes also need to eat a diet which suits their needs also.
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Stovokor
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Stovokor » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:46 pm

Sorry.....but if you make it request only, how are people who want to come asking questions in that section, ever going to know about it?

Would you prefer they received POOP advice on a reptile forum...which advises the POOPEST conditions and terrible husbandry, or let them come here and well, maybe see that there is an alternative way of doing things?

I vote it should stay, and people should stop being wimps, it's been there all this time, and not done you any harm so far.

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Squirrel
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Squirrel » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:47 pm

I don't want to get into an arguement, but in the wild the snake's prey have a chance to escape. In fact most of the prey are probably older which is why they are easier to catch. These rats have no chance and die very young. It is horribly sad.
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Tori30
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Tori30 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:47 pm

I don't particularly like it but it is aimed at improving the care of the rats which is what we're all here for. I don't think the aim of that board was for discussion of feeding.
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Squirrel
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Squirrel » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:48 pm

Stovokor wrote:Sorry.....but if you make it request only, how are people who want to come asking questions in that section, ever going to know about it?

You could still have the heading with a message to PM mods to be allowed access, it's no biggie. At least then nobody would accidentally click on it (say a child) and see upsetting titles to posts on there.
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Stovokor
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Stovokor » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:50 pm

Squirrel wrote:I don't want to get into an arguement, but in the wild the snake's prey have a chance to escape. In fact most of the prey are probably older which is why they are easier to catch. These rats have no chance and die very young. It is horribly sad.

Life is sad, let's bury our head in the sand and pretend it all doesn't exist, is your solution? No, THAT is sad.

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Amzy
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Re: Really upset with FR

Post by Amzy » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:50 pm

Squirrel wrote:
Stovokor wrote:Sorry.....but if you make it request only, how are people who want to come asking questions in that section, ever going to know about it?

You could still have the heading with a message to PM mods to be allowed access, it's no biggie. At least then nobody would accidentally click on it (say a child) and see upsetting titles to posts on there.
Equally a child may get upset with some of the graphic images posted on the health section?
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